As if Toronto Pride wasn’t controversial enough this year, then came the announcement local luminaries Todd Klinck and Mandy Goodhandy had accepted the honour of acting as the Grand Marshals of this year’s Pride Parade – after it was declined by the original first choice. I spoke with Goodhandy and Klinck Friday evening for a candid conversation about accepting the honour, not doing as everyone thinks they should, and why from a broader perspective, all the current community upset is good.
This was an honour you both had gone after in other years. This year you got it in an unusual way. What went through your head when you were offered the position of Grand Marshal – was it an easy decision to make in the current climate?
MG: It was an easy decision to make to accept the award, but difficult under the circumstances. Because you have to remember we are activists. We’ve had to really go about it thinking what it says about us, what it says to the community. Young kids are coming from small towns, and they never get to see this sort of thing – they come this year and there’s nothing?
I know, a lot of youth find the Pride celebrations a beacon of hope, and of course I’m like you guys with concerns nonetheless. I make my living off of words. But beyond the main issues that the community is all over, we can’t forget there are other important aspects of Pride that are in danger, such as what you just said: this event means something tremendous to our youth. There is more to Pride than the issues been going on. What’s the response been like from others – I saw mixed stuff on Facebook; you’ve issued two statements.
TK: I think when you filter out the nonsense; it’s been overwhelmingly positive and supportive. And it’s mostly initial reactions that are understandable, the question: Why? Why are you not doing what everyone else is? Why are you not doing what we expect you to do? That’s why we did the statements, we had a clear reason and we wanted to put that out there. Because a lot of people we respect are not doing things, bowing out or this or that. Once our statements were posted, people ‘re-friended me’.
Have you found there has been a degree of that, that “Hey, you should be thinking and speaking and behaving exactly the way I think you should?”
TK: Yes, yes.
MG: People have been TELLING us what we should be doing. In bold subject lines: WE URGE YOU … you should be doing this or that … very adamant. We were being quite quiet about it, because that’s sometimes what you have to do, let the waves go over. Unfortunately people thought that just because we were being quiet meant we were afraid. And Todd has never been afraid of anything and neither have I.
Neither of you have, and that’s one reason why I think it’s appropriate you are the Grand Marshals this particular year – you are behaving in accordance to how you feel, dealing with this the way you wish to, sticking to your own guns and not giving concern to whether it’s popular. I admire that, and think it’s a wonderful message at Pride. You represent fearlessness, authenticity, your backgrounds as sex workers … I’m excited about it.
When you talk about people urging you to do as they wish you to do – and I’ve received this too – the continuation of someone telling you what to do is really “because if you don’t do things the way I think you should do them, I won’t be happy. My happiness depends on everything happening the way I need it to happen, and if it doesn’t I will wag my finger at you and maybe even behave nastily towards you.”
(They laugh)
MG: Exactly. It was really bad that Todd had to put out a second statement in layman’s terms for people who didn’t get it the first time. It shouldn’t have had to be necessary; what bothered us was the lack of trust. We don’t sit back on that kind of thing. We totally respect everyone’s opinions, and we never once wrote back on Facebook that we thought anyone was wrong. Activism to us is not hatred, and pointing and blaming and bullying. They are looking to blame somebody, they were shocked and don’t know how to react, and so they react instead of act. I just wish everyone would wait until July 5th. Then we’ve got a year to straighten this out.
Don’t you think that people who want things straightened out by this Pride are shit out of luck? Because the nature of our Pride right now – like it or not, and I see the arguments, always have – the nature of Pride at this exact point in time is that it’s highly funded. It’s corporate funded, government funded. And you simply cannot change that entire world in a few weeks.
MG: If you feel that Pride should not be corporate anymore, then fine. Go back and do a walk, when that’s all it was. But you’re not going to get 1,000,000 people watching the walk. To take one thing on you have to lose something. But that’s up to individuals. Our decision is to march in front of all these kids and all these people who fought so hard to live the way they want to live.
Todd what about you. What does change mean to you?
TK: I have a personal view that I like the big Pride. I like the big festival Pride – someone on FB said it really well, the cacophony of Pride – the random signs from fringe groups, the paper machier gay pilots association, TD Bank, the money, the whole of Chinatown watching it, straight people with their kids watching it. This is progress, this is what the first march led to. I want that kind of Pride, I like that kind of Pride. I think it’s important.
One thing I notice out of this is that people have desperately wanted a political pride for as long as I can remember. Now it’s here full force yet people still won’t stop screaming about the cooperative components that brought the politics back. That is what holds you back from moving forward, staying focused still on what brought you the very thing you were wanting.
MG: I wish we could all get what we want, but it never works that way. There’s always going to be differences of opinion. I love activists, I love that they are speaking out and protecting all of our rights. Please don’t get me wrong; I think it’s amazing. Let (QuAIA) march. All that has been banned is one term. I get it. Let’s get this straightened out for next year.
TK: And I think (QuAIA) are going to go out with that term, and see if the City is going to stop you. I doubt it.
Key words “the City”. I think the focus has not been on the City, who as far as I understand are the ones who put the pressure on Pride Toronto. I wish the activity that’s gone down in anger and protest had been pointed at The City.
TK: It seems pretty clear it’s the City. But all the energies have been focused at Pride Toronto. It’s a pack mentality, it’s a like crazy journalism mentality.
MG: It’s too bad it all had to happen, but it had to happen.
TK: And now you’ve got sex workers leading the parade. I’m happy about that. How much for activist can you get. It says right on our sign: “Decriminalize Sex Work Now”.
Let’s talk about that. To me that’s leading edge, sex workers leading a Pride parade. What does it mean to you?
TK: The decriminalization movement is happening right now. We’ve been involved in it, we fundraise, there’s a court battle on right now.
MG: It’s about mainstream. If you don’t start educating the mainstream, they are afraid of it. If you show them, they’re like “Okay, let’s talk about it more”. We’re doing what we can for our part of it, and this is our part of it.
We’ve talked today about the idea of focus, and the idea of mainstream and the idea of people watching. So sex worker issues, censorship issues, QuAIA’s issues – these are all being highlighted because of the stage on which this is being played out – more so that if it had never happened this way.
MG: Yes! When it comes to the people who are fighting with each other, I think what’s happening is differences of opinion and we’re passionate about our opinions, and if that ever stops we’re screwed. If people aren’t talking, no one is going to hear what anyone has to say. I was very angered about some of the comments that were directed towards us when we accepted the honour. I was extremely angered. But I thought, ‘they are entitled to what they think, let’s see what happens and I can’t judge them back. Let’s see what happens when the dust settles.’
Because otherwise you add to the very thing that you’re judging.
TK: It’s never good to go into back and forth when it’s all rage. Say your piece, chill a bit, and eventually we can all talk.
I said this to you in an email: You picked a doozy of a year to do what you are doing. I want to offer my congratulations again – well done.
MG: Thank you so much Shaun and thank you for the opportunity.
Shaun Proulx is the publisher of GayGuideToronto.com and HIMBO! and hosts The Shaun Proulx Show Fridays at 7:30 pm only on OUTtv.
